|
|
Post by hjp on Mar 14, 2013 19:21:42 GMT 10
Well I started a bit of discussion on Facebook today in regards to how people structure their squat an deadlift training and SP said I should post a topic up here. So hopefully I can get some feedback.
I am interested in how people structure their squat an deadlift training each week/program. So basically wanting to get ideas of:
- Do you squat and deadlift heavy in the same week?
- Do you squat and deadlift on separate days or the same days?
- How many times a week do you do each lift? Or I suppose closely related variations of the lift too.
- If you do a lift more than once a week, do you alternate intensity/volume/speed work on different days or is it pretty similar?
Basically just interested how people structure their training. Want to get some insights an different perspectives.
Thanks all!!
|
|
gp
MSIC
Posts: 1,189
|
Post by gp on Mar 14, 2013 19:41:17 GMT 10
When I was at Melbourne Uni we squatted and deadlifted twice a week alternating heavy/light
Monday - light deadlift then heavy squats
Thursday - heavy deadlift
Friday - light squat
The idea of the light days was to hone technique, improve confidence and work on speed. The light deadlift before squats also acted as a bit of a warmup to get things firing quickly. The light squats was restorative the day after heavy deads. Light days were around 60-70% of the weight used for the heavy days, usually around 50% of 1RM, similar to what you'd do for Westside DE days but for more reps.
Volume/intensity was done according to conventional linear periodisation over 6-12 week blocks depending on when the comp was.
|
|
|
|
Post by hjp on Mar 14, 2013 19:52:38 GMT 10
Cheers for the reply gp! It's interesting stuff, I really enjoy learning how others train. Got to always be willing to learn from others in this game so I appreciate the input.
Also I realised after posting this that there's a training discussions area so mods feel free to move it there. Thanks!
|
|
|
|
Post by spotterloader on Mar 14, 2013 20:38:41 GMT 10
50% IMO is too low of a % for raw DE work with no accommodating resistance
My own training has been a bit hit and miss, but I have had success with Emma (particularly on squats) using a 3 week wave that is sort of a Cube/531/Prilepin hybrid where we have a set weight for the day and sets/reps are based on Prilepin and how the squats are looking that day. The waving is most similar to the Cube method. sample squat cycle might look like
70%, 80%, 60%(8sx2r), 80%, 90%, 70%(8sx2r), 90%, 95-100%,deload, competition
We will pull after this in the 60-70% range for 5x5, 12x1 or 12x2 depending on the variation
Heavy pulling is done earlier in the week, normally to a heavy/max single Westside style. Though after the heavier squat sessions I will limit the loading with exercises like GM for reps. A squat variation (paused or with a specialty bar) is also done on this day, either working to 3-5RM or for higher (15+) reps
|
|
|
|
Post by pritchard on Mar 14, 2013 21:39:18 GMT 10
Mike Tuchsherer challenged my ideas about heavy deadlifting. I had trained westside for a couple of years and was led to believe that deadlifting wasn't essential if you squat heavy. My deadlifting then was a little hit and miss- I pulled 300 in 2007, but often missed 292.5. When I switched to sheiko that got me deadlifting once a week and that helped a lot. I talked a little to some Russians who told me they pulled sumo so they could better manage squatting and deadlifting heavy. I felt like i was breaking the rules doing sheiko and deadlifting conventional. Bt mike came along and said why can't you deadlift heavy every week- why not twice a week? Well, I guess the answer to that you assume it's too taxing. But of course the same can be said of squatting heavy twice a week. Mike told me that he saw no reason why it should be one way for squats and another for deadlifts. The thing is you need a structured plan that varies loading and volume in a way designed to move you forward and peak at the right time. The more you push the loading, the less you can push the volume. Most plans adjust the ratio of volume and loading in such a way that things build up, but in a manageable way. As the weights get heavy you do less volume. It makes sense that it should be that way. But that doesnt mean you can't pull heavy and squat heavy most of the time.
With sheiko you tend to do something like this-
Week one squats vary from 70-75%- twice per week- Monday and fri- and similar for deadlift, although you could pull heavier partials- Wednesday only
Week 2 up to 80% for squats- same days, deadlifts similar although you could go 85% partial
Week3 similar
Week 4 up to 85% in squat and same for deadlift.
Then back to week 1.
With rts I was doing the following:
Tues- squat with chains or pause squat then deadlift assistance and bench
Wed- deadlift with chain or pause deadlift, then squat assistance, then bench
Saturday- comp squat and comp bench
Sunday comp deadlift then bench assist
Week 1 might be 5s
Week 2 might be 4s
Week 3 might be 2s
Week 4 singles
The reps determine the loading- so a 5 rep set was a 5@9, which mean up to weight when I had 1 in the tank or. 6rm.
The rts way shifted the loading up significantly as week 1 was around 83% and every week got heavier. The frequency for deadlift was higher, but of course the volume was lower than sheiko. I think that's always the trade- loading goes up then the volume will invariably come down.
There are advantages to both paths, the key is understanding what they offer and how to use them. But the lesson was I can definitely squat and deadlift heavy frequently.
My deadlift moved doing this and so did my squat. The thing that I am interested in is working out the right balance of volume and loading- the rep ranges as well as the total number of lifts- that produces optimal results.
I remember Brad Gillingham telling me about deadlift training- you get whatever you put in. True and wise words. The more work you pack in the more you will get from it, but the trick is understanding how to best pack it in while factoring in your recovery and the way what you do produces a particular set of training effects.
Not sure what I am saying is that helpful. Bt if you struggle to manage the workload with a particular template the choice is really to find the right balance in terms of frequency, volume, intensity and loading. Changing one of these variables can make a big difference.
|
|
|
|
Post by BenchPolkov on Mar 14, 2013 22:10:23 GMT 10
I've always squatted and deadlifted heavy on different days of the week and in the same week (except when I ran westside). 1-2 squat days per week and 1-2 deadlift days per week depending on the programming.
|
|
