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Post by pritchard on Apr 15, 2013 15:03:49 GMT 10
don't do a 20 week cycle. I think thats too long. 16 weeks is about as long as you should go I think. 12 weeks is probably better. So- 29-37-32 or- 29-30-37-32
use the same numbers all the way
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jj80
New Member
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Post by jj80 on May 25, 2013 7:48:58 GMT 10
I'm looking for a Bench only Sheiko program cause at the moment my back complains when I pick up shopping bags Can anyone point me in the right direction? Bench Polkov did you write one for 37? I thought I saw a post by you showing a bench only program, that had overhead press, pullups, band pull aparts, and some extra supplemental work specified, but I can't find it now.
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Post by jrd on May 25, 2013 10:47:24 GMT 10
Currently templates known as 29,30,31,32,37, 39, 40 are widely available- as are a number of CMS and MS routines. I thought I'd share some thoughts on these, as well as some other templates I have come across. As far as I can tell- the idea that the numbering of these templates relates to an order or sequence is misguided. The original templates in Russian actually has 29 as 1, 30 as 2, 31 as 3 and 37 as 4. They are all just prep cycles for rated lifters. 32 is a comp cycle for a rated lifter. The real story of what they build and how is best worked out by reference to the volume and intensity. 29 is often described as a starting point and a deadlift focused template. In fact, 37 is generally considered the most balanced of the templates and provides a good starting point- but it isn't for the absolute beginner. I'd recommend the other beginner template in this section of the forum for absolute beginners. Once you have reasonable proficiency in the lifts you'll be ready for the rated templates. Sheiko also advocates only doing what you can manage and slowly guilding the work capacity and volume. First priority are the fundamental lifts, next the supplementary lifts- so you can start of with no assistance- and even drop sets off the plan. He says flys and goodmornings are as much for stretching, recovery and injury prevention so you can handle the volume without breaking down- he also advocates warm up sets of low weight up to 20 reps before you jump into the work sets. Stretching is considered important- they often add what they call 'depth squats', for eg, to work on mobility and flexibility. arrester 1, 2 and 3- or 29, 30, 31- are not intended to be run straight into a comp cycle (or 32). My understanding is that they all provide stepping stones toward a more balanced template like 37. 30 and 31 are hard, but they lay a useful foundation. My recommendation is that people start with 37 as prep and 32 for peaking. Once you can handle the volume and you have some time you could try something like 29,30,31,37. Be warned- thats a hard slog. Where to start.... I have been running Sheiko cycles for quite a long time now, and have learnt a lot reading Russian forums and the like. #37 is the original rated lifter prepatory cycle found in Sheiko's book. #32 is the competition cycle. A good start for anyone is #37>#37>#32. Beginners will often find they improve a lot in the first prepatory cycle and might like to increase their maximum for the second block. Any new PBs hit in the skills evaluation should be used as their max for the rest of the block. Most people find #37 works great for squat and deadlift, but the bench intensity is too low. I believe this is because a true beginner might not have done much benching, but a lot of people (myself included) have done a fair bit of benching before they start the lower body lifts seriously. Dave Bates has created a really effective 13 week cycle that uses #37 for squat and deadlift and higher intensity benching from #30/#31. You can find it here: doc.erictalmant.com/13%20wk%20beginner%20program.doc#29,#30,#31,#32 are supposed to be run in order for a 16 week cycle. They are designed for a Class 1 rated lifter, i.e. 565@82.5, 620@100. I take this to mean someone that has been lifting for a while. These programs are quite challenging. #39 and #40 are not written by Sheiko as far as I know. I believe they are modifications to #29 and #30. The first four weeks of the bench only cycle can be found here: www.elitefts.com/sheiko/plan_gime1.htmThere is another prep block and a competition cycle after that I can put up if anyone wants. "The" CMS cycle that is commonly seen (http://www.elitefts.com/sheiko/Sheikotrcomp.htm) is designed for a small CMS/MS lifter. This is a serious amount of volume and definitely NOT a good starting place.
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Post by Admin on May 25, 2013 18:17:51 GMT 10
Yeah, I agree. By absolute beginner I meant someone new to lifting. I think throwing them into 37 might be a bit much for most until they have developed basic skill and tolerance to pain. I haven't actually seen anything by sheiko that proscribes 29-30-31-32, did I miss that in the book? I know then are numbered in a way that is suggestive of that sequence, but I thought that one of the gems of info that was feed along the sheiko-pavlov- hooper-Talmant chain was that this was misconceived. I may be wrong. Or rather that it isn't supposed to run 29-30-31-32-comp
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Post by BenchPolkov on May 28, 2013 5:15:54 GMT 10
What is a "small" CMS-MS lifter? Sub-100? Sub 90? Sub-80?
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gp
MSIC
Posts: 1,189
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Post by gp on May 28, 2013 11:30:55 GMT 10
Great informative post, Joel. Question on this bit: Any new PBs hit in the skills evaluation should be used as their max for the rest of the block. So, this would apply to the remainder of 32? I just kept my maxes the same. What if, as happened to me, a lift actually went down in the skills eval, whether through strength loss or technical falt? Ideally, would I adjust the numbers in 32 down, or leave them the same? Last time I left them the same and I managed to peak well and PB'd at the comp.
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Post by pritchard on May 28, 2013 12:26:09 GMT 10
This is what the original 32 says:
If an athlete has improved personal bests in an exercise, it is recommended to take a percentage of new results only after lifting at the next competition, provided that this is not more than one month.
If you run 32 properly you should be stronger on comp day than skills. If you under-perform at skills there is a good chance that is due to fatigue. You just hold tight and keep going with the same maxes you used for the prep.
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Post by BenchPolkov on May 28, 2013 12:38:11 GMT 10
I'm looking for a Bench only Sheiko program cause at the moment my back complains when I pick up shopping bags Can anyone point me in the right direction? Bench Polkov did you write one for 37? I thought I saw a post by you showing a bench only program, that had overhead press, pullups, band pull aparts, and some extra supplemental work specified, but I can't find it now. Look in the coach's shed. There are Pritchynov adaptations of the Sheiko Gime 1 and 2 cycles including assistance. I'm still yet to do Gime 3.
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Post by BenchPolkov on May 28, 2013 12:42:09 GMT 10
Joel and Steve. I've started running CMS 1 due to some sort of deathwish. Having had a look at my available time I can either run it CMS-1>CMS-2>CMS-3(minus a week)>CMS-Comp or CMS-1>CMS-2>CMS-1>CMS-Comp. Should I make any adjustments as a 90kg lifter or am I "small" enough?
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gp
MSIC
Posts: 1,189
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Post by gp on May 28, 2013 12:46:17 GMT 10
This is what the original 32 says: If an athlete has improved personal bests in an exercise, it is recommended to take a percentage of new results only after lifting at the next competition, provided that this is not more than one month.If you run 32 properly you should be stronger on comp day than skills. If you under-perform at skills there is a good chance that is due to fatigue. You just hold tight and keep going with the same maxes you used for the prep. Thanks. This is exactly what I did and exactly what happened. I had understand that your numbers don't change throughout 32, irrespective of what happens in your skills test, but what Joel wrote was a little different. It was a bit confusing.
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Post by Aaron on May 28, 2013 12:49:49 GMT 10
Yeah I changed mine to reflect my new maxes at skills test. It might have factored a little bit in only doing 5KG better than skills but being weak is probably a bigger factor.
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Post by pritchard on May 28, 2013 13:10:18 GMT 10
This is what the original 32 says: If an athlete has improved personal bests in an exercise, it is recommended to take a percentage of new results only after lifting at the next competition, provided that this is not more than one month.If you run 32 properly you should be stronger on comp day than skills. If you under-perform at skills there is a good chance that is due to fatigue. You just hold tight and keep going with the same maxes you used for the prep. Thanks. This is exactly what I did and exactly what happened. I had understand that your numbers don't change throughout 32, irrespective of what happens in your skills test, but what Joel wrote was a little different. It was a bit confusing. I think the point is that if you can hit PRs in the skills test then your maxes are probably not an accurate reflection of where you are. This is because you hit new bests in a fatigued state. So Joel's recommendation makes sense. But I guess any change like that should be supported by how things have gone to that point.
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gp
MSIC
Posts: 1,189
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Post by gp on May 28, 2013 13:48:51 GMT 10
OK, understood. Thanks. Hopefully I'll have the good problem of setting PRs in the skills test next time.
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Post by pritchard on May 28, 2013 14:19:07 GMT 10
Joel and Steve. I've started running CMS 1 due to some sort of deathwish. Having had a look at my available time I can either run it CMS-1>CMS-2>CMS-3(minus a week)>CMS-Comp or CMS-1>CMS-2>CMS-1>CMS-Comp. Should I make any adjustments as a 90kg lifter or am I "small" enough? you are crazy. I think let your body guide whatever adjustments you need to make- but the first place to look at cutting is day 4. Then if you are still dying look to cut back on the lower % sets in the second movements. I think the smart idea is to start as written and then adjust. If you start blowing your brains out its too much you can drop a work set or drop a rep, but thats a drastic step. I tried CMS twice. I think I got 3 weeks in and lost all will to live.
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Post by BenchPolkov on May 28, 2013 15:38:35 GMT 10
Joel and Steve. I've started running CMS 1 due to some sort of deathwish. Having had a look at my available time I can either run it CMS-1>CMS-2>CMS-3(minus a week)>CMS-Comp or CMS-1>CMS-2>CMS-1>CMS-Comp. Should I make any adjustments as a 90kg lifter or am I "small" enough? you are crazy. I think let your body guide whatever adjustments you need to make- but the first place to look at cutting is day 4. Then if you are still dying look to cut back on the lower % sets in the second movements. I think the smart idea is to start as written and then adjust. If you start blowing your brains out its too much you can drop a work set or drop a rep, but thats a drastic step. I tried CMS twice. I think I got 3 weeks in and lost all will to live. I'm only doing bench 3 days at the moment but am adding in the 4th day's deads where I can fit them in my schedule. I finished #37 easily and decided I wanted a bigger challenge as I kept on jacking the squats up well past my recommended numbers.
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